Brand Metrics + Amazon Marketing Cloud: How to Drive True Incrementality

Nov 18, 2021 1:30 PM2:30 PM EST

Request The Full Recording

Key Discussion Takeaways

Many eCommerce brands know that the more access you have to data, the better you can perform. Historically, Amazon has kept a lot of data to itself — but that’s all changing. What are the new tools that can help your brand drive true incrementality?

The Amazon Marketing Cloud (AMC) is one of the leading developments that can help an eCommerce brand drive growth. This data-clean room holds first-party data from advertisers to help with measurement and attribution. AMC has the ability to generate custom audiences, maximize advertising ROI, and help you choose which campaigns to invest in.

In this virtual event, Aaron Conant is joined by Patrick Quaggin-Smith, Head of Partnerships and New Business Verticals at Perpetua, and Alec Tulett, DSP Sales and Operations Manager at Perpetua. Together, they talk about how AMC can help brands better understand data and leverage those insights for growth. Patrick and Alec share the pros and cons of AMC, how to use AMC and brand metrics together, and the technological features sellers can look forward to in the future.

Here’s a glimpse of what you’ll learn:


  • Alec Tulett shares what the Amazon Marketing Cloud (AMC) is and how it helps drive 10x more insight
  • Why did Amazon launch the AMC?
  • Patrick Quaggin-Smith talks about utilizing brand metrics in combination with AMC to drive growth
  • Who has access to the AMC and brand metrics?
  • Optimizing consumer journey paths and comprehending important KPIs
  • Understanding Over-the-Top (OTT) ad campaigns and strategies
  • The AMC advancements that Amazon sellers can look forward to in the holiday season and 2022
Request The Full Recording

Event Partners


Perpetua is a SaaS tool that uses AI powered automation in order to improve digital growth via Advertising performance across a variety of marketplaces & platforms.

Connect with Perpetua

Guest Speakers

Patrick Quaggin-Smith LinkedIn

Head of Partnerships at Perpetua

Patrick Quaggin-Smith is the Emerging Channels Lead at Perpetua, a company that helps brands, media agencies, and Amazon sellers improve performance through AI-powered automation. Before taking on his current role, Patrick was an Account Executive at Perpetua and helped grow both the team and customer count. Patrick is also a Business Analyst for Mannin Research and studied economics at Northwestern University. 

Aaron Conant LinkedIn

Co-Founder & Managing Director at BWG Connect

Aaron Conant is Co-Founder and Chief Digital Strategist at BWG Connect, a networking and knowledge sharing group of thousands of brands who collectively grow their digital knowledge base and collaborate on partner selection. Speaking 1x1 with over 1200 brands a year and hosting over 250 in-person and virtual events, he has a real time pulse on the newest trends, strategies and partners shaping growth in the digital space.

Alec Tulett

DSP Sales and Operations Manager at Perpetua

Alec Tulett is the DSP Sales and Operations Manager at Perpetua. Before joining Perpetua, Alec held roles at Brown University and University Health Network in addition to being a professional lacrosse player. He received both his bachelor’s and master’s degrees from Brown University.

Event Moderator

Patrick Quaggin-Smith LinkedIn

Head of Partnerships at Perpetua

Patrick Quaggin-Smith is the Emerging Channels Lead at Perpetua, a company that helps brands, media agencies, and Amazon sellers improve performance through AI-powered automation. Before taking on his current role, Patrick was an Account Executive at Perpetua and helped grow both the team and customer count. Patrick is also a Business Analyst for Mannin Research and studied economics at Northwestern University. 

Aaron Conant LinkedIn

Co-Founder & Managing Director at BWG Connect

Aaron Conant is Co-Founder and Chief Digital Strategist at BWG Connect, a networking and knowledge sharing group of thousands of brands who collectively grow their digital knowledge base and collaborate on partner selection. Speaking 1x1 with over 1200 brands a year and hosting over 250 in-person and virtual events, he has a real time pulse on the newest trends, strategies and partners shaping growth in the digital space.

Alec Tulett

DSP Sales and Operations Manager at Perpetua

Alec Tulett is the DSP Sales and Operations Manager at Perpetua. Before joining Perpetua, Alec held roles at Brown University and University Health Network in addition to being a professional lacrosse player. He received both his bachelor’s and master’s degrees from Brown University.

Request the Full Recording

Please enter your information to request a copy of the post-event written summary or recording!

Need help with something else?

Aaron Conant

Co-Founder & Managing Director at BWG Connect

BWG Connect provides executive strategy & networking sessions that help brands from any industry with their overall business planning and execution.

Co-Founder & Managing Director Aaron Conant runs the group & connects with dozens of brand executives every week, always for free.

Schedule a free consultation call

Discussion Transcription

Aaron Conant 0:18

Happy Thursday everybody. My name is Aaron Conant. I'm the co founder Managing Director here at BWG Connect a networking and knowledge sharing group with 1000s of brands who do exactly that we network and knowledge share together to stay on top of the newest trends, strategies, pain points, whatever it is that shaping the digital landscape. I get the privilege of talking to 30 plus brands a week those change on a week to week basis. They kind of pick their brains see, you know what those biggest pain points are? What are the biggest strategies that are shaping the their digital landscape as a whole. And when the same topics come up over and over again, we host an event like this, I do a ton of help with partner selection as well, as we kind of get, you know, to the midpoint of q4 here, if anybody's looking for any partners in the digital landscape from Amazon to direct consumer, you know, different plugins on that side to drop shipping to international expansion, don't hesitate to reach out I love those conversations and more than happy to kind of give you a short list of the top recommended service providers that we found recommended threw out the network. You know, that's also just you know, how we actually find the experts to speak on our calls like this is when the same you know, service providers come up over and over again, we reach out and say hey, would you guys like to jump on in and help educate the the group as a whole couple of housekeeping items as we get started? This is educational and informational. We want to make sure that everybody gets as many questions as they have answered. So you can submit questions via the chat by inset questions via the question section there or you can always email me Aaron we'll get as many questions answered as possible. As far as email goes, that includes an hour after the call tomorrow next week, anytime you have a question or you need a connection in the digital space, just reach out more than happy to kind of utilize a network to get you an answer, usually in under a day or so. The other thing is we're starting this at three to four minutes after the hour. And just so everybody knows we're going to wrap up with three to four minutes to go on the hour as well. We want to give everybody plenty of time to get on their next meeting without being late. And so now kind of that, you know, I want to kind of jump into this conversation, you know, the idea of, you know, lifetime value, right incrementality people trying to optimise every part of their eCommerce business right now. We've gone beyond Digital 1.0. We're in 2.0, where it's gotten a lot more complicated. And by this time next year, there'll be another whole layer. But you know, this has come up enough. We got some great friends partners at the network, longtime supporters over Perpetua, a lot of different brands of that work using them. They agreed to kind of jump on the line today and kind of educate in this area as a whole. So again, you have any questions drop in the chat or the q&a. But, you know, okay, you know, where do you you know, Patrick, first you want to do an intro on yourself and Perpetua and kick it over to Alec or Alec and go first. I don't care. Whoever wants to jump in first, you know, kind of brief intro on yourself in the organization and then we kind of jump into the content here. Sound good?

Patrick Quaggin-Smith 3:15

Yeah. Awesome. Thanks for the intro. I'm Patrick. I lead the partnerships and new marketplace team here at Perpetua. I'll kick it over to Alec who leads our DSP team, if you have any.

Alec Tulett 3:30

Yeah, no thanks, Pat. Been Prerpetua for coming up on two years, lead DSP operations, and super excited to talk to you guys today about AMC and brand metrics.

Patrick Quaggin-Smith 3:42

Yeah, and just going off what Aaron said, for those of you who are on what we were just kind of talking earlier, just before starting this, he talked about how digital advertising is like experiments, and you kind of run these experiments and you see what works and what doesn't work. Historically on Amazon, there's been very limited insight into kind of holistic view of full funnel advertising to understand what's working and what's not working, you can run it and it's kind of a binary, hey, this is working, we have good, you know, conversion or row as, or, Hey, this isn't working. Amazon understands that running experiments, you want to access to a lot more data, you really want to be able to get granular and see why something's working, why something's not working. And that's what they really built with us with two new betas that are really, really exciting. One called AMC, which is the Amazon Marketing Cloud. And then a new one which just released called brand metrics, which allows us to understand lifetime value, as well as benchmark against competitors in our categories are really, really excited to go over this. And with that said, I think once you see the new data that you get, it's very, very hard to unsee it. You're gonna want to begin to use this data for you know, every campaign that you're running, and it will give you a lot more holistic understanding of how users are actually coming to purchase our OTT TV, upper funnel DSP is actually leading to these downstream sponsored conversions. So with that said, I'm going to kick it over to Alec to first explain what what AMC is and how when using it in combination with brand metrics, we're going to be able to hopefully drive 10x more insight into user.

Alec Tulett 5:24

Awesome, thank you, Pat. And sorry, my leaf blowers outside my door right now, I hope that's not too distracting. So what? What is AMC, your next slide here. The Amazon Marketing Cloud is a clean room where we are able to anonymously combine various data sets and query across common points like user ID, for example, this allows for really impactful analysis while maintaining user level privacy. In practical terms, we get all the campaign data that you're familiar with sales spend row as a cost, click through a detail page view rate, we get that for your DSP data across any campaign, we get that across your sponsored product data, and soon AMCs going to integrate with sponsored brands and sponsor display. So we're going to get that data as well. And then on top of that, we also get first party data sets. So any offline conversions or customer engagement on any of your eCommerce channels, we're going to be able to hash that data and bring it into the cleanroom to query against all that Amazon data. So pros and cons, the pros of AMC are theoretically limitless, but really, it's in the attribution potential that I'm going to go into in a second, as well as many other features on the roadmap for the future, which include the ability to generate custom AMC audiences, which we are particularly excited about cons of this right now are that we cannot combine AMC with other cleanrooms such as Google's or Facebook's. And then due to privacy concerns, sorry, privacy concerns, any query that is run needs to include at least to users. Additionally, at this stage, AMC is a very manual process, and it requires a significant amount of time for our BI team or for your developer team if you're integrated. So why do we care? Why is this important to brands, we all know that a full funnel advertising strategy is key for success on Amazon. This ensures that we're hitting users at all stages of the consumer journey, and it maximizes our advertising ROI by making each individual tactic more efficient. However, it can be really challenging to demonstrate this with the data currently available. last touch attribution means only one ad gets credit for a conversion. Even though the shopping journey can last weeks or months and is likely influenced by several campaigns across your media mix. Our internal best practices have historically been to show this relationship indirectly with correlated campaign data. So we ramp up an awareness display campaign or we launch OTT. And then we look to see increase scale and efficiency in our retargeting efforts. But we don't have to rely on this anymore. With AMCs, multi touch attribution, we're able to map the user journey across ad types and levels of the funnel, and thereby show the direct impact that our awareness and consideration campaigns are having on shopping behavior. And this is outside of the traditional metrics like video completion rate, and total impressions. So really powerful stuff, tracking users across the internet, across different ad units and levels of the funnel.

Patrick Quaggin-Smith 8:45

And I'm just gonna stop here, to just touch on this even further, being able to access this level of data across all of your campaigns is really awesome. You know, before as, as Alec said, you're looking at directionally correct data where it's like, hey, we turn on OTT and we see you know, impressions go up, and we see sales hopefully go up, and it's like, how is that actually working? But now we can see, okay, you know, someone sees an OTT ad and two hours after actually going on and purchasing, we can say with good good certainty, A, this person was probably influenced by seeing that ad, whereas we can now see someone who may be purchases two to four to five days later, that probably was less relevant and played less of a role in actually getting the user to purchase. So it's really really interesting to be able to get as granular as you'd like with attribution timeframes as well as times between actions to see exactly how people are interacting with each ad and how that's actually driving further downstream sales. Just

Aaron Conant 9:49

this is they're just really quick reminder, if anybody has any questions you can drop into the chat or the question section or email them to me Aaron, just one question that comes in You know, is it, it's around Amazon's purpose for launching this data. So historically, if I expand on a little bit, historically, Amazon's kept a lot of data to itself. Or they just see it out flex of, or not big enough the increase in in paid media coming into the platform, and they're looking to get more data like a Google or Facebook would.

Alec Tulett 10:24

Yeah, I think they're definitely looking to expand the reporting capabilities for large brands on Amazon. And they also want to level up and offer something that really nobody else in the space is doing. And that's a layer of granularity in the reporting for upper funnel campaigns. So linear TV, connected TV, streaming TV, you know, seeing how this has a downstream impact on sales is super vital to understanding if it's worth it or not to run these campaigns. And we've actually seen a tonne of success in unlocking these TV budgets, given our new AMC reporting capabilities.

Patrick Quaggin-Smith 11:00

Yeah, and it just allows brands to feel more confident in unlocking that budget, being able to go and show Hey, people who view this OTT ad are actually 2.1 times more likely to end up purchasing is just like a really, really powerful one of the really, really powerful stats that we've been using. But as we'll get into later with some of the more case studies and use cases that we've seen, it's also really, really good at determining if your campaigns are actually influencing purchasing behavior. So if you run an OTT ad, and then you can see all of the purchases are coming from non branded searches. So I'm selling coffee. And I can see I run this, I show this to a million people, we get 10,000 conversions on the word coffee, it probably didn't influence them at all, because they're not actually searching for our brand, we, we didn't really show any brand awareness or just purchasing from, you know, a sponsored product on a non branded search term. But if we can say, hey, we showed an OTT ad and 50% actually went and searched our brand and bought our product on our branded searches, that actually signals to us that, hey, these people are seeing this ad, they're learning about the brand. And they're engaging further down the funnel. And that's just one example. You get this across all of your campaigns, you can see how OTT leads to DSP leads the sponsored or leads to organic, it's just really, really powerful to understand the flows that users are taking, and then being able to justify which budgets are which campaigns should have budgets and which ones maybe you should begin to lean off of, because it's actually not driving any incremental growth for your brand.

Aaron Conant 12:34

Awesome, it makes sense then, right? I mean, so AMS Yeah. All right. The PPC platform, not as important. They're launching all these and I know DSP, you know, all these, you know, different platforms that they're launching a higher dollar ring. And in there's kind of this demand by brands, like we need to see if it's working or not, you know, it can't just be a black hole. Awesome. No, love it. Yeah. Thanks for allowing me to jump in there quick.

Patrick Quaggin-Smith 12:59

Yeah, definitely. And just one more point on that, like, I know, like DSPs typically, like got have very bad like names with view through attribution of people just viewing and then the purchasing, and people are like, Oh, we can't really attribute a view to a sale. Now with this data, you can actually say, Does this view actually influence the sale or not? I which, I don't think any other DSP actually has the capability to do that. Um, what we're really excited about as well as tying it in with brand metrics. So, again, Amazon has like, been very hesitant to give, you know, lifetime value as a as a metric for, for brands. But I think they realize similarly, that, you know, so many people are optimizing for an a cause or row as, which doesn't really show the whole picture. Something that previously was used and DTC brands use a lot is the cost of acquiring a customer. So the CAC versus the LTV is really kind of like the Holy Grail of is that an ad? Or is it a channel of acquisition worth it? When you know, when DTC brands IPO, that's something that is a core metric for all of them. And it's something that we can now benchmark against due to this new API that that Amazon has provided. So what exactly is brand metrics, it's basically a data set that Amazon provides you for your brand, that allows you to see a lot of really interesting things about your rent, relative to the category. So when you go to brand metrics, you if you have multiple brands within your seller account or vendor account, you select the brand, the brand, you select the look back window, so you can do last week or last month, and then this updates every week. And then you also choose the category of the products that you have. So Amazon will actually limit you to the categories that you sell in, but you might sell I don't know like a cold brew coffee and a ground coffee. You'll be able to select which category you want to look in. So you can compare your groups of products or category of products relative to only other sellers or brands within that category. And then what it's going to give you is a whole lot of data around how your brand ranks relative to the median of the category. And then relative to the top performers, Amazon defines the top performers as the top 10 percentile within the within the category. And then obviously, category meeting is the 50th percentile. Some of our favorite metrics are as follows. So the first that, you know we look at isn't necessarily something that you optimize for, but rather is a really good Northstar KPI, or is your advertising working is your is your brand growing in the category. The first is the awareness index. Awareness is defined as people who are shopping in that category, are they aware of your brand, but maybe they've seen your brand a few times, you know, they're probably looking at screen time seeing if they've seen your brand for over a certain number of time. There you can see, we're in the 85th percentile, meaning for this category, our brand is you know better than 85% of other brands. Meaning, you know, most shoppers are definitely aware of us. The consideration index is defined as someone who is defined as shoppers who, when making a purchase in that category, actually consider your product as as a product to purchase. And here you can see we're in the 91st percentile. So here, you know, we probably are under indexing in terms of brand awareness, we probably have really good products for the category that we're ranking in. And regardless of people being aware of our brand, we're actually considering buying and or purchasing our brand, because we just have really good products, and we're probably dominating the search results pages. So very, very interesting. And just can give you an overall understanding of hey, is my advertising working? Are we beginning to trend better or worse against the pure set within that category.

But the more exciting metric, at least for us, because it's kind of actionable, and we can use it as as a way of defining success of ad campaigns, his return on engagement, Amazon defines return on engagement, as the LTV of a customer over the last 12 months. They're really, really interesting thing is they give the return on engagement for each part of the funnel. So I think there's like seven or eight different engagements throughout the funnel that they'll give you. So like you have your branded search ROV that's really just people who have searched your brand before, but haven't taken any other action throughout the funnel. What is the return over 12 months from that audience or that group of people who have taken that action. The second that someone takes an action further down the funnel, that acts they actually get removed from the existing audience. So if I did a branded search and then an Add to Cart, that person is no longer just in the branded search audience, they get moved down into the branded search plus add to cart. This allows you to have really, really clean LTV for your brand over the last 12 months. Additionally, you get to benchmark against the category medium, and the category top performer. The account that we pulled this data from is actually one of the category top performers. So you see zero there because they are their top performer. But it allows you to now think about hey, what if it cost me X dollars to get someone to a detailed page view and I know it's worth seven or $8 to me over 12 months, you can begin to think about not only how your ads should be performing, but really at what cost you're willing to get people onto your detail page view or onto your detail page. So maybe you know your A costs should be 100 or 200%. Because it only costs you know $5 to get someone to a page and that's actually worth $7 to me over 12 months, you can begin to think about how to optimize not only your DSP, but your sponsored ads as well. Awesome. I'll

Aaron Conant 19:08

jump in just with a couple questions that have come in. Is the Amazon Marketing Cloud only available in that top tier Amazon advertising platforms?

Alec Tulett 19:19

No, it's currently available to preferred partners. So if you're looking to run AMC, you can either do it through Amazon media groups, you can do it through their own manage campaigns need a minimum of $15 million monthly spend across DSP and sponsored ads for the year or you can run it through one of their partner agencies like us. But there is that barrier right now.

Aaron Conant 19:44

Okay, awesome. And then another question that comes in. Hey, thanks, everybody, for shooting these over if anybody else has questions drop in the chat or the the question section there. How does one get brand metrics? You know, is it an Amazon rep?

Is it a dashboard?

Patrick Quaggin-Smith 19:57

I'm not actually sure serve where it shows up in the Amazon console, we use it through like an API. So they have an API that we hit and we just have it as a tab within our within our app. I'm sure it exists somewhere within the Amazon Dash, I'm just not exactly sure where, but everyone has access to it. As long as you have brand registry, which I'm sure everyone here does. And then yeah, you just got to go around and play play around with all of this really, really cool data. Awesome, love it. Sweet. So really, the the core of this presentation now is like, what if we're able to tie these two datasets together to understand how each user journey is actually driving? You know, LTV or awareness or profitability for our brand?

Alec Tulett 20:57

So yeah, no, I mean, we can tag team this one, I think what we're really excited about obviously, is that combination really brand metrics, introducing these new KPIs that we want to sort of replace with, or sorry, replaced rows or a costs, make those secondary KPIs where now we're actually looking, you know, what is the lifetime or 12 month value to your brand, based on the level of engagement. So take detail page view here, for example, we get cost per detail page view through the DSP. And we get a new brand cost per detail page view through AMC. And after that, it becomes pretty simple formula of which campaigns are providing us with a new brand cost per detail page view lower than a 12 month, return on engagement. So that's super exciting. We really want to like lean into that shift of mentality of what KPI is really important. And then additionally, we also want to be able to optimize consumer journey paths. So you're not just gonna say, hey, this DSP campaign, or this sponsored campaign has a new brand cost per detail page view, because that's how advertising works. People move from one product to another, they move from one level of the funnel to another. And so with AMC, we can say, alright, X amount of users went from OTT view to DSP retargeting and then made a purchase on this keyword campaign that yielded a new brand cost per detail page view, well below your lifetime value, we should double down on this, we should invest in this path, and we should maybe divert some spend away from other ones.

Patrick Quaggin-Smith 22:35

And that's exactly what you can see here. So something that we've built on top of an AMC is the ability to see the path that each person is taking when making a purchase. And then we're also able to benchmark that against any of the metrics that we think are relevant. So obviously, like loyalty campaigns, you're gonna want to benchmark probably against your branded customer spend vs. You know, here more upper funnel, we're really looking at that cost per detail page view, specifically New to brand cost per detail page view, because we're all about driving new customers to our brand. And then what's also really exciting is something that Alec mentioned earlier is we're going to begin to be able to build DSP audiences off of these different journeys. Additionally, AMC allows us to see not only conversion flows, but impression flows. So if we serve someone in a DSP ad or an OTT ad, and they come down, and we can see that they ended up searching for a specific search term and seeing our product, but not ending up purchasing will actually be able to begin to build custom audiences going after someone who may be searched one specific keyword, which again previously hasn't been able to happen with within the campaign. And that's exactly what you see here. So let's take the word like zero sugar drink, for example. So we have someone we show them an OTT ad, they went on Amazon, they serve zero sugar drink, they saw our product, but they didn't end up purchasing, we should begin to create retargeting campaigns aimed specifically at that audience with highly customized creative, highly personalized, creative knowing that, hey, they're into zero sugar drinks, but show them the zero sugar creative. They were able to really, really make sure that every ad we show was relevant to each user that comes through the flow.

Alec Tulett 24:26

Awesome. Yeah. So So here's just a quick little case study on a brand that we've been able to grow pretty pretty quickly over the last two years, Four Sigmatic. I'm sure most of you have heard of them. So really, Four Sigmatic was doing very well on sponsored and DSP. They had sat really saturated, their sponsored product brand display ads, as well as the bottom funnel of DSP. So they're, you know, had a ton of success, but they want to reach more users. And as most of you know, that's really where OTT can be really successful. But they were hesitant you know, Is OTT letting my money on a fire? Am I going to be able to see real results from this TV campaign that really shouldn't be driving value as it is full screen non skippable commercial style ad. And in addition, so back in q4, last year, we did run the first OTT campaign with them. It was a great success since then we've invested over 200,000 more in just OTT alone. And in terms of success, you know, the the primary KPIs that Amazon traditionally looks at branded search, lift, detail page lift, video completion rate, as well as a retail Insights report. Those all crushed it, they were great in all those areas. But what really resonated with the four SIG leadership team was the results that we were able to provide through AMC. And so this is a slide that we call power of the funnel. Pat alluded to it earlier, but it's definitely my favorite reporting view of AMC thus far. And what it does is it looks at the purchase rate of users who have seen a sponsored product ad or seen a DSP ad, and then it compares it to users who first see an OTT ad, and then see and display a sponsored product ad. And as you can see, users were almost two times as likely to make a purchase after viewing an OTT ad, and then being displayed a sponsored product ad and almost 1.5 times as likely to make a purchase on a DSP ad following an OTT impression. So very clear, you know, distribution, or sorry, exhibition of sales downstream on these traditional ad units following an OTT impression. And we're really happy to kind of see these results and continue running OTT with them.

Patrick Quaggin-Smith 26:43

Awesome. Any questions?

Aaron Conant 26:47

Yeah, the only other question that comes in is what's and you've mentioned this just a couple of times, but you're going to kind of walk through a budget. You know, just a few people wondering, like, what is the natural progression here? Right, is, you know, if you can walk through that, and what the budgets are, you know, and then commonly what happens with pay me on Amazon, if you're using the Amazon Media Group, they're, you know, a minimum spend, and it's completely different minimum spend, if you're using you know, like a preferred partner, like you guys are an agency, what is was that whole budget? What is the spend look like? When Should people start? You know, jumping into, you know, OTT?

Patrick Quaggin-Smith 27:24

Yeah, you want to go ahead and pop? I mean, no, please, please go for it till.

Alec Tulett 27:35

I mean, we we really like to, to advise brands that your OTT budget should come from your marketing budget, and now your eCommerce budget, because it really is a brand awareness play. And the fact that we have AMC just makes it so much more powerful, because you can actually tie those marketing dollars towards that eCommerce performance. So you know, any brand that has a marketing budget should be running OTT through Amazon, because of the reporting and the insight that you get. And, you know, especially if they're, you know, active on Amazon as an eCommerce channel. So really anybody that has marketing budget, we push towards OTT. And then the rest of that eCommerce budget, we would, you know, form a strategy for full funnel. Usually we see you know, emerging brands saturate the retargeting and the retention parts of the funnel, because that's where you see the highest return. We totally understand that. But we also make sure that we advise to include a healthy mix of middle funnel competitor conquesting consideration, because the bottom of the funnel is where you see the most cannibalization. And if you focus too far too much on that, you're just gonna see an inflated rise, which might make you feel good in the short term, but it's not gonna not gonna grow your

Patrick Quaggin-Smith 28:51

brand. Yes, to add on to that as like a flow of like using AMC. So you mentioned Amazon Marketing Group, I think they have line item minimums. That means is very, you know, you're going to limit the amount of user journeys you have, because your number of line items is going to be smaller. We believe in creating as many line items as we see fit for the products, meaning a lot, a lot more probably 5x More than Angie, which allows us to get these granular user journeys. So if you are using a different DSP provider that doesn't have these inode minimums, you'll be able to immediately see these rich user journeys by just connecting to MC and beginning to query the data. If you are using Amazon Marketing Group, you probably want to restructure, you can still run these but your data will be a lot more limited than if you were to have a more complex DSP structure. So I would recommend, you know, talking to Andy and seeing how you can expand the amount of line items that you guys have running such that you can begin to have these insights into the exact user user flows that, that people are taking. But it is available right out of the box. So the second you get an AMC instance setup, you can begin looking at this data, understanding the data. And that will better better inform you of where and how, how much budget you should be putting to each part of the funnel speed. So, yeah, that was pretty much like the entirety of the presentation. We definitely wanted to make it as communicative as possible in terms of like questions, if I we know that not too many of our brands knew about AMC, or brand metrics, typically, a lot of conversation. So if people do have any questions about anything, definitely don't hesitate to show.

Aaron Conant 30:45

No, I think you nailed it. So just Yeah, everybody can drop questions in the chat or the question section there. I think you've nailed it. This is, I mean, I talked to 30 plus brands a week. And this is kind of a lot of this is brand new to me, I love what you guys bring to these are there? Are there new things that you're seeing in a beta that are coming out? Things that people should be aware of things you can chat about or not chat about, for what 2022? Looks like in this space?

Patrick Quaggin-Smith 31:14

Yeah, yeah, but you go first, please.

Alec Tulett 31:18

I was just gonna say that, you know, AMC is pretty much the latest development in Amazon's ad tech stack. And we work very, very closely with their development team. So we're on the front lines of hearing what's rolling out. As we mentioned, audiences, I think, is the future of AMC, I think that's gonna enable us to really action these insights in a really impactful way. But looking to the future looking to q1, q2, really, they're just going to be incorporating more data. So obviously, you know, more data is, is more money and getting sponsored brand sponsor display into AMC is going to be super exciting. And then additionally, they're going to be able to pull in data through seismic ad sweet. So some of you might not know what that is, and the recent Amazon acquisition that allows you to serve ads from the DSP. But what's cool about that is it'll allow brands to incorporate any campaigns that they're running on the trade desk, also into the AMC cleanroom. So you'd be able to manage and optimize your media across both Amazon's DSP, as well as the trade desk if you happen to be running there. So that's kind of what I'm personally most excited about. I don't know if Pat had something else to say as well, if we had any questions about that, Aaron.

Aaron Conant 32:37

No, I mean, this, this space has been changing so fast. I think brands are also trying to balance the the fact that now, I've I'm in some way over indexed on Amazon, right, I don't want to lose market share. I don't want to you know, it to be still be doubling year over year from the standpoint of, hey, I need to, you know, kind of diversify where it's at. And, you know, Walmart is kind of stumbling, you know, Instacart is out there. But people are like, it's such a valuable channel. Right? You can do you know, a small campaign or direct to consumer side and get results. Or you can do a campaign like this on Amazon and, you know, do a month's worth of sales on your actual consumer side, it's this interesting balance of where should money be spent? And then Amazon, you know, there's all these pain points around Amazon and not enough data that they come out with this. And it makes it even harder to say no, I think is is a reality that's out there.

Patrick Quaggin-Smith 33:40

And something that I'm super excited about is even on the PPC front, they're like taxing the granularity of data that you're getting, I think someone else is giving a talk with you guys in December from us. But there is a new API that provides hourly PPC data. I can't say the name, I don't think but it basically solved like, I mean, in the space, everyone was talking about day parting, and like hourly bidding, but that historically has been impossible for software. Because one, the API, the existing Amazon advertising API wasn't reliable enough to give you hourly data. And then to there was always a chicken in the hand of like, if there was a click at 10am. And then the purchase happened at 5pm 10am looked really bad because you had to click and then 5pm looked really good because the sale happened. And there was no way to backfill the click at the sale to when the click happened. But Amazon released a new API in beta that we have all of our customers are part of, we've been running some experiments where they just push you hourly data. And then every hour they backfill, the attribution of the sale happens at 5pm. But the click happened at 10am. They'll backfill that sale to the 10am click so you get really, really clean high fidelity hourly PPC data, which is just allowed us to see the entire data trends that actually exist. So I think in the very near term like PVC will get 10 to 15% more efficient, because we're going to be able to build these intraday algos that previously, we just had no no insight into.

Aaron Conant 35:19

Yeah, it's, it's an awesome space and yet, you know, a lot of a lot of hesitation, I think from Branson, you know, what's going on there? Anyways, you know, people keep dropping questions in but yeah, I'll get to know if you had thoughts there too.

Alec Tulett 35:42

No, no, that's, that's pretty much it for me. excited to hear any questions that anyone might have.

Aaron Conant 35:47

And so if anybody has any, I mean, I don't have a tonne that are pouring in right now. I think this is one of those new spaces. By the time we've done, you know, a couple different calls on it, and people had a chance to use it. I think in a lot of cases, people are sitting back saying, Well, I didn't know this existed. And it's tough to ask questions on that space. But you know, for a follow up, pick, how many of your brands is this available to

Patrick Quaggin-Smith 36:14

all of our brands. So definitely don't have to, like use our core software or anything. If you're interested in, you know, exploring some of this data with us. Definitely don't hesitate to reach out, we can get you guys set up. And we can just just show you the data. And then yeah, from there, hopefully, you'll gain some of this insight that we found and be able to apply some of these strategies for your brand. Awesome.

Aaron Conant 36:43

Well, I mean, I love it. I mean, if anybody else has questions, drop them in now. If not, we might just wrap this one up. You know, usually we push these right up to the hour, but we might wrap this one up a little bit early and give everybody a little chunk of the their day back. I know everybody's busy is we're headed into cyber five. So you know any other like key takeaways, you know, Patrick on your side, and we'd love to hear some and then we can kind of wrap this thing up.

Patrick Quaggin-Smith 37:08

Yeah, I think the key, one thing that I'm really excited for a key takeaway is like, the more access you have to data, obviously, the better you're going to be able to perform. That is going to be magnified through you know, Black Friday, Cyber Monday and q4 is really exciting that they've released all of these betas going into holiday season. Because you know, intraday trends are probably going to be 10x more during holiday season, because there's more volume, these different user flows, like how people actually shop, how people get aware of gifts, all of this is very, very exciting consumer behavior, that again, previously, we have all of these guesses, and we've been looking at, you know, directionally correct data. And now we're going to be able to see exactly how users shop on Black Friday, Cyber Monday, but times of day, what flows they take. So we've been getting everyone we can set up with this data with these data sets, not because you know, we're necessarily working with them to optimize just yet, but really just letting letting us get more access to data, letting users get more access to the data. So we can collectively learn as as an industry about how these trends are actually working. So I'm really excited for the next like, month and a half or so, to really see how by how holiday shopping actually really works online. That's gonna be really exciting.

Aaron Conant 38:30

It's gonna be awesome. We're gonna have more data around it than ever before. Well, I think that we can go ahead and wrap it up. I want to say a quick thank you to everybody who dialed in today everybody who is able to jump drop in questions. You know, if you need any follow up 100% worth having a conversation with a team over Perpetua. You know, Alec, Patrick, thanks so much for your time today for sharing this new stuff. I can't wait to do the next one. Actually. We've had a ton more data, but also a lot of brands using that as well. And with that, we're gonna wrap it up. Hope everybody has a fantastic Thursday. Have a great Thanksgiving if we don't get to connect with you before next week. But everybody take care. Stay safe and look forward to having you at a future event. hope everybody enjoys the gift of time here. Go crush it everybody. Have a great week. Thanks again Alec, thanks Patrick already but take care now.

Read More
Read Less

What is BWG Connect?

BWG Connect provides executive strategy & networking sessions that help brands from any industry with their overall business planning and execution. BWG has built an exclusive network of 125,000+ senior professionals and hosts over 2,000 virtual and in-person networking events on an annual basis.
envelopephone-handsetcrossmenu linkedin facebook pinterest youtube rss twitter instagram facebook-blank rss-blank linkedin-blank pinterest youtube twitter instagram